السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته This Blog is Dedicated to the Preservation of Peace, Dignity, and Human Rights and the Dissemination of Knowledge.
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An Interview with Ahmed Issack: Chairperson of the Independent Electoral Commission of Kenya
By Adan Makina
July
27, 2012
WardheerNews
WardheerNews
(WDN): welcome to WardheerNews Mr. Ahmed Issack. Could you please share
with our esteemed readers the importance of the Independent Electoral
Commission of Kenya?
Ahmed
Issack: The IEBC is an independent body established by the Constitution with
the mandate to manage and conduct elections and referenda in the country. It
also has the mandate to undertake review of constituency and county assembly
ward boundaries, every 8 to 12 years, or periodically for the case of county
assembly ward boundaries. The Constitution emphasizes that the sovereign
authority of the people of Kenya is exercisable directly or through their
elected representatives. The same Constitution provides a devolved system of
Government, a two-tier legislature, and an electoral system with a semblance of
a mixed member proportional representation providing for categories of special
seats. This has translated to a system where Kenyans would vote for six (6)
elective positions, all in one day. The specific role of the Commission
therefore is to get Kenyans registered for the elections, regulate nomination
process of candidates and the campaign period and finally, conduct their
elections into office. While doing all this, the Commission is also required to
create public awareness on the elections and the manner of voting.
WDN:
How did the members of the Electoral Commission come about? Could you give
us a brief background of members of the commission, what parties they represent
and if there are any members who don’t belong to any party?
Ahmed Issack: Unlike in the past where membership represented interests of different political parties, members of IEBC are appointed through a competitive process through a Selection Panel. The Selection Panel is appointed by the President in consultation with the Prime Minister (this applies until after the first elections) and with the approval of the National Assembly. The Panel is facilitated by the Public Service Commission. The Panel is required to advertise for the positions of the Chairperson and
members of the Commission in newspapers of national circulation within seven days of their appointment. The Panel shortlists candidates and submits to the President 3 names for Chairperson and 13 names for members of the Commission. The President nominates the Chairperson and 8 members and tables the names before the National Assembly for vetting and approval. The National Assembly then vets and approves/rejects name(s). In case of rejection, the President can draw other names from the remaining list forwarded by the Selection 2 Panel. If all the names forwarded to the President by the Panel are rejected, the Selection Panel is required to send fresh names to the President from those shortlisted. The list of nominees is required to observer regional and ethnic diversity, and gender balance (at least one-third to be of opposite gender).
WDN:
The commission you head is independent-meaning it is free, autonomous or
self-regulating. Since Kenya is a land that is known for corruption,
exploitation, and malfeasance, do you think the Electoral Commission will carry
out its activities without government involvement?
Ahmed
Issack: The Commission has institutional and functional independence but not
yet financial independence. The budget is a subject of negotiation with the
relevant agencies. The Elections Act however has established a Fund of the
Commission, which is a charge on the Consolidated Fund. In this regard, the
Commission is looking forward to financial independence.
WDN:
How prepared is the Electoral Commission for the upcoming elections?
Ahmed
Issack: Despite the budgetary constraints, the Commission is prepared and committed
to deliver a credible election. The legal framework is in place and the
attendant Regulations will be approved by the National Assembly by September.
Procurement of election materials and personnel is ongoing, voter education
materials and operational manuals are in place, capacity building and training
of staff has commenced, and accreditation of observer groups is ongoing. The
boundaries cases have now been concluded save for a few appeals filed. The
Commission is about to roll out voter education on the elections and
sensitization on voter registration and on the manner of voting. The Commission
is in the process of mapping polling stations in preparation for the
registration exercise in 40,000 polling stations. The Commission is also
preparing a vote tabulation system that would allow transmission of results of
all the six (6) elective positions in over 300 tallying centers countrywide.
The Commission has put in place dispute resolution mechanisms including setting
up an Electoral Code of Conduct Compliance and Enforcement Committee, Dispute
Resolution Committee, Peace Committees, Conflict Management Panels, etc. Some
of these are cascaded to the County and/or Constituencies for effective
management of electoral disputes as and when they arise. The Commission works
closely with strategic partners in election, including relevant Government
agencies with some role in electoral related matters such as in security,
issuance of ID cards, schools (which are the primary premises for polling
stations), transport and logistics, etc.
WDN:
How many polling stations have been reserved for this mammoth exercise?
Ahmed
Issack: The Commission will be increasing the number of polling stations from
the current 23,000 to 40,000 polling stations. This will address issues of
voters walking long distances to access registration centers/polling stations
and to allow adequate time for them to cast their vote.
WDN:
How is the anticipated democratic election that is to be held next year
different from past high-handed elections of the Kenyatta and Moi years?
Ahmed
Issack: The competitive nature of the appointment process will greatly enhance
the independence of the Commission. The electoral reforms now in place will
further ensure enhanced compliance with the rules and regulations on elections.
The Commission has now employed Returning Officers on permanent and pensionable
terms in order to make them more accountable for their actions. In addition,
the law now imposes heavy sanctions for officers who subvert the process of free
and fair elections or who knowingly obstruct the Commission in the discharge of
its functions or otherwise interferes with the functions of the Commission;
they would be liable to 3 years imprisonment or 1 million fine or to both.
WDN:
What measures have you put in place to avoid a repeat of the election
irregularities of 2008 where thousands of innocent civilians were either
indiscriminately killed or evicted from their homes by marauding hooligans?
Ahmed
Issack: The Commission has put in systems and processes in place that would
ensure peaceful elections. In addition, judicial reforms have been undertaken,
giving Kenyans a renewed hope in the judiciary as an avenue for seeking
justice, rather than resorting to violence. The dispute resolution mechanisms
outlined above have so far worked very well. The Commission is also working
closely with the National Cohesion and Integration Commission to ensure
peaceful campaigning and elections. Lastly, the sanctions put in place,
including barring of candidates or parties from contesting in elections are
likely to deter any attempt to go back to 2007/8. Furthermore, the law now
grants the Commission the power to investigate and prosecute election offences.
The Commission will have resident Investigators and Prosecutors, and will work
closely with the Office of the Director of Prosecutions for additional support.
Lastly, the ICC process is surely a live lesson for the country.
WDN:
Do you think the Kenya police force will be capable of keeping the peace
despite their tarnished image?
Ahmed
Issack: Police reforms have been part of the agenda 4 reforms. Tremendous work
has been undertaken to ensure that our security agencies are properly
capacitated and exercise their duties within the confines of the law. The
Commission engages security agencies when planning for elections for purposes
of sharing intelligence and briefing them on the Electoral Code of Conduct and
its implications. In return, the security agencies commit to providing the
much-needed security for election staff, premises and materials and regular
updates on the security situation.
WDN:
Will international election observers be deployed to oversee and ensure the
culmination of smooth and fair elections?
Ahmed
Issack: Yes. The Commission has in the past accredited both domestic and
international observers. During the constitutional referendum of 2010, the
Commission accredited over 4,000 observers. We have now commenced on the
accreditation process, particularly for the long-term observers, who observe
the entire electoral cycle rather than the campaign and polling only. The
Commission has also allowed Election Assessment Missions to assess the level of
preparedness for the upcoming elections.
WDN:
What punitive measures have been put in place by the election commission to
fight mix-ups, misinformation, vote buying, ballot stuffing, mis-recording of
votes, misleading or confusing ballot papers, electoral fraud, tampering with
electronic voting machines, and destruction of ballot papers?
Ahmed
Issack: Part VI of the Elections Act outlines an array of election offences,
including fines, imprisonment and barring of candidates and political parties
from contesting in elections. The Commission has the mandate to monitor the
implementation of the Electoral Code of Conduct and any possible breaches
thereof. The biggest challenge however is to get hold of admissible evidence
for such alleged offences to allow for prosecution of the offenders. There has
been in the best allegations on such offences, but no tangible evidence to
support them. The Commission appeals to all Kenyans, political parties and
aspirants to be vigilant and share evidence to support such allegations.
WDN:
Who will be overseeing the safety of election boxes and election cases?
Ahmed
Issack: The Commission has the mandate to oversee the election and the related
processes. It works closely with security agencies to ensure safety of election
materials, premises and materials of the Commission. During election times, the
Commission gets security personnel from the Kenya Police, the Administration
Police and other agencies, where necessary. This however calls for an
additional cost, which competes against others within the budget constraints.
WDN:
Electorate manipulation usually happens during or immediately after election
campaigns. Manipulation of democracy is the illegal act of authorities
artificially controlling electorate composition for the sake of producing
foregone result. How are you going to handle such cases in a country that is
entirely responsive to vice?
Ahmed
Issack: The Constitution and the law guide the Commission and all players in
elections. Therefore, as long as each of the players act within the law, be it
the Commission, the candidates or political parties, the Police or the Courts,
the hand of the law would be applied indiscriminately.
WDN:
How long will it take to resolve a disputed election?
Ahmed
Issack: The Constitution provides that a dispute on the presidential election
should be filed with the Supreme Court within 7 days; it should be heard and
determined within 14 days. On the other hand, any dispute arising out of the
other elections is to be filed at the High Court and to be heard and determined
within 6 months. This is a big step forward, considering that in the past there
was no time within which the court could hear and determine an election
petition.
WDN:
Are the Kenyan Diaspora allowed to vote in the coming elections and how will
their voting be regulated?
Ahmed
Issack: The Constitution provides that citizens residing outside Kenya will
have a progressive right to be registered and to vote. The progressive nature
of this right takes into account many factors, including the review of the
legislative framework, the planning and logistics concerned and of course, the
cost component related to this right. As a start, the Commission will register
citizens residing outside Kenya at the designated Kenyan Missions abroad. This
will take into account the cost and logistics of the particular Mission. The
Commission will designate the staff of such Missions, other than the High
Commissioners and their Deputies, to be registration and eventually polling
officials. For purposes of the forthcoming elections, the Commission will
register citizens residing outside Kenya to vote for presidential elections and
national referenda. Best practices of other jurisdictions and domestic
constraints will inform future how citizens residing outside Kenya will vote in
future.
WDN:
Do prison inmates have the legal right to partake in the coming elections?
Ahmed
Issack: In the past, prison inmates were not eligible to vote. Prior to the
2010 national constitutional referendum, the former Commission (IIEC) was
ordered by the Court to register prisoners for the referendum. The Commission
complied with the Court Order and registered prisoners and facilitated their
voting during the referendum. This however had its challenges, out of the
30,000 estimated prisoners, only 5,000 registered to vote. Less than 50,000 of
these eventually voted for one reason or another. Based on the lessons learnt
from this exercise, the Commission has put in mechanisms to provide for the
registration of prisoners.
WDN:
Kenya-Somalis in North eastern Kenya are mostly Nomads, concentrated in
rural areas. How will you facilitate for those Kenyans to participate to
exercise their voting rights?
Ahmed
Issack The law requires the Commission to put in mechanisms to facilitate
registration of eligible voters and to ensure that they exercise their
constitutional right to vote. One such mechanism is mobile registration centres
for pastoralist areas or areas with mobile communities. The Commission gazettes
such polling stations are “mobile” to allow the registration staff to follow
the communities to the grazing areas or watering holes. This strategy has
greatly enhanced participation of such communities in the electoral process.
WDN:
There were some irregularities and rigging election that took place in last
election in some parts of North eastern Kenya. What would you tell Kenya-
Somalis to entrust and lend full confidence in the election process so that
their votes will be counted without any fixation this time?
Ahmed
Issack: The systems and processes that the Commission has put in place have
taken into account the recommendations of the “Kriegler” Report and have
addressed the shortcomings identified in the Report that led to the 2007/8
post-election violence. The strategies adopted by the Commission have been
arrived at through intensive consultations with various stakeholders in the
electoral processes, including representatives of the target groups. This has
enhanced public confidence in the Commission in particular and in the electoral
process in general.
WDN:
Will this be the end of the era for nominated or appointed governors or
officials to head a region they do not belong?
Ahmed
Issack: The nomination of candidates envisaged by the law is for purposes of
proportional representation of special categories of sections of the
communities, including youth, persons with disabilities, women, workers, marginalized
and minority groups. The law does not restrict their appointment to a
particular region, but it does provide that the list should have regional and
ethnic diversity.
WDN:
Thanks for sharing your views with WardheerNews
Ahmed
Issack: I appreciate your time and efforts.
An Eye on Somali Philosopher and Poet “Idaajaa”
By Adan Makina
April 11, 2022
Praise Be To Allah who has given me the ability and time to write on a very special person in this blessed month of Ramadan. Ramadan is the ninth month of the Islamic Hijri calendar and it is also the month when the first revelation of the Qur’an occurred. Part of the five pillars of Islam, Muslims spend their time in prayers, reading the Qur’an and serving their communities who are in need.
Despite having conversations with him over the phone a few times, honestly speaking, we have never met face-to-face before. However, I’ve known him for decades because I was a great reader of newspapers like Xiddigta Oktoobar and Halgan and international magazines such as Newsweek, Time and the National Geographic that I was a subscriber for over a decade or so. Likewise, I was also a great listener to Radio Mogadishu and Radio Moscow and the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) before the collapse of Somalia.
While his real name is Ahmed Farah Ali and since almost all Somalis have nicknames according to a foreign correspondent, he is also known as “Idaajaa.” No wonder the name Idaajaa is from a surah or verse in the Qur’an. To this day, I have a friend whose nickname is “Aladii”–also a surah from the Qur’an, which, I think was one of the hardest to memorize for local dugsi (Qur’an school) students of yore.[i] For “Aladii”, Qur’an students were known to sing “Aladii i gubtooy i guduudisoy”, which translates to ‘Aladii that burns me and leaves reddish color on my epidermis’ which is the outer layer of the skin. The burning is the pain from the whipping of the Qur’an teacher when a student misses an ayah or verse while the reddish color connotes the traces left after the inflictions are done. After thorough search on “Aladii”, the final meaning derived from Surah Muhammad which is the 47th surah with 30 ayahs. As for “Idaajaa” that is Arabic, regardless of being his nickname, it means “when comes…” For example, some surahs begin with Idaa jaa like Surah Al-Nasr (110: 1) that starts with the verse “When Allah’s ultimate help comes and the victory ˹over Mecca is achieved’.”
Somalia’s Idaajaa is the author of Dabkuu shiday darwiishkii (1974) with contributions from Cabdulqaadir Xirsi "Yamyam who is regarded among the top poets of Somalia. Idaajaa is an orator, a political analyst, a broadcaster, a poet, and a translator and as well, a mentor for millions of Somalis from the time he started his radio broadcasting in the early 70s until now. Calling Idaajaa names and complaining that his poetic narrations or broadcasting have been the cause of divisions since he is directed to only a few clan poets are outrightly meaningless for such exclamations have been conceived by people with negative tribal mindsets and obviously could be branded deceitfully invigorating miserable individuals because some brandish barren degrees that have not done anything meaningful to Somalis and humanity in general.
The above ethos reminds me of one my articles on Maxamed Saleebaan “Tubeec” that appeared on WardheerNews on February 9, 2012. Even though the first article on the vocalist had to undergo changes in the form of a eulogy on April 4, 2014 with the title In Memory of Tubeec: King of Somali Music after his departure from this world while in Germany, a comment from a famous and educated Somali man who is well known to many since he is a great writer in the Somali language left me in bewilderment. Rather than being thankful, he wrote in Somali “waxba noomaadan sheegin”, meaning you have narrated nothing to us. In response to his sarcastic and belittling language, I wrote back to him saying “isku gobol ayaad ka timaadeene, maxaad wax uga qori weyday”? I meant, since you hailed from the same region, what prevented you from writing an article about him? With that in mind, years later, I received an electronic message from a man who was from the same region as the previous recalcitrant responder. He wrote, “Makina, you really described Tubeec exactly the way he was known to us.” That shows how people have opposing personality traits resulting from negative and positive emotions.
According to a friend who is familiar with the historical past of Idaajaa, there was a time he landed in a big city in one of the states of Somalia. At the airport, he was confronted by a few men who wanted to know why he always spent most of his time on Seyid Muhammad Abdullah Hassan’s poems and why he gave little credence to their reputed poets. The Seyid was the man who fought imperialist powers for almost over twenty years. To call a spade a spade, he reminded them that the Seyid always recited his poems by mentioning the name of Allah while their poets were religiously deficient. Amazed and ashamed of their arrogance, they let him go free.[ii]
By Googling the name Idaajaa one’s reflection could end up boggled, because the name is so numerous in almost every social media and that could lead to confusion when it comes to picking up the right choice. Whether in audio or visual form, every search engine will give you pages loaded with his name. He has a captivating voice that is humorous, soulful, exhilarating and melodious and unique especially in his presentation styles.
The number of Somali poems, mythological stories, social, cultural and traditional commendations he has presented remain uncountable. How he narrates the historical poem known as “Silsiladdii Guba” that was started by Cali Dhuux Aadan that brought together a combination of 12 well-versed poets, has produced many eidetic modern young Somali men. An eidetic is someone with the ability to memorize a conversation, poem or stories no matter how long they could be. The most famous Somali eidetic who memorized almost 100 poems of the Seyid and who took over the leadership of the Dervishes was Hussein Dhiqle. He has been described as the best eidetic of his era.[iii]
Idaajaa is a political analyst for the Voice of America (VOA) Somali Service and the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) on matters related to political and religious ideologies, social, cultural and traditional issues and other factors. Someone with such wide array of knowledge is regarded as a polymath and if writing and reading is included, he becomes a philomath. We could assume Idaajaa is a man of literary repute, a man who has surpassed the love for wisdom which is Doctorate of Philosophy (PhD) because, in modern times, there are many Somalis having multiple degrees who have contributed nothing to the advancement of their society.
One day, while reading a research paper on the Somali language–a paper that was written by a foreigner, I got shocked to learn that the author or writer was out of context, because s/he claimed that words that end with ‘kayaga’ are exclusive to the Dhulbahante only. Dhulkayaga, waddankayaga, dhaqankayaga and others fall under that category. To avoid falling into a literary dragnet, out of curiosity, I picked up the phone and called Idaajaa who proved to me that the writer was out of topic and misplaced in his or her grammatical expounding. Likewise, Idaajaa told me that he doesn’t belong to the said tribe and that he commonly uses those end words.
Many doubting Toms who have been defective of the history of the humorous Garaad Wiil Waal now have the chance to narrate to their children in audiovisual series or receptions while Carraweelo aka Ceebla’–the most brutal woman in Somali history who castrated men and is characteristically defined as akin to Queen Hatshepsut of Egypt, is easily accessible on Youtube with the appealing voice of Idaajaa overtaking other presenters. Even though the exact period or era when recordkeeping started in the world is unknown and conjectural, for contemporary Somali history, enough has been recorded to entertain our current and future generations.
Full of creativity, Idaajaa, the Somali man of wisdom who served his nation with dignity and devotion to culture and literature, is also a poet. While mimicry elicits stereotypes, Idaajaa has been criticized by some who don’t have control of their mannerisms. Psychologically, it is common for people to have different behaviors that include being active, ambitious, cautious, curious, creative and finally being conscientious. Part of the positive task-oriented behavior, the rest are logical, organized, perfectionist and precise.[iv] Those displaying negative task-oriented behaviors are known to be scatterbrained, volatile, lazy, careless and anxious. There are also the extroverts and introverts. There is no human being who is perfect. We all have weaknesses and the best of all amongst us is the patient one.
Regarding the commitments of Idaajaa to Somali cause, there is enough evidence that reveals the role he played from the very first day he spoke on a radio microphone, the first day he jotted down an article either using the old type QWERTY typewriter or the day he scribbled a note using a Bic pen or a ballpoint pen that is manufactured by Société Bic of Clichy, Hauts-de-Seine, France and an exercise book. On a final note, Idaajaa deserves a pat on the back for the hard work and determination spent spreading what benefits the people of Somalia for over half a century.
Nota Bene: This article will appear in the writer’s upcoming book to be released after Eid Mubarak, In Shaa Allaah.
Adan Makina
References
[i] Telephonic conversation with Maalim
Idris and Abubakar Mohamed. April 11, 2022, Kenya.
[ii] Telephonic Interview with Ibrahim
Sambul. March 15, 2022, Dhagaxley Refugee Camp, Kenya.
[iii] An Anthology of Somali Poetry - 1993 – PAGE 48
[iv] List of Words that Describe
Behavior. Retrieved from
https://grammar.yourdictionary.com/word-lists/list-of-words-that-describe-behavior.html
Sunday, January 16, 2022
A REBUTTAL TO A MISGUIDED COLONIAL ANTHROPOLOGIST
December 9, 2021
By Deeq Yusuf & Adan Makina
Recently, we came across a widely circulated YouTube video that was on the concept of federalism by the Laureate Professor Emeritus Prof. Cheryl Saunders of Melbourne University Law School on Federalism, wherein she objects that federalism will not work in Somalia while giving Ethiopia the upper hand. Why Federalism Failed in Somalia is a long video (Prof Saunders of Melb Uni Law school on Federalism) that is worth watching for students of political science, anthropology and sociology. Having watched the video again and again, we felt befuddled by the deceitful way she tried to convince her spectators or listeners.

We watched the video and there is no doubt in our minds that this Professor’s false assumptions are informed by ignorance and premised on shallow Eurocentric thought. She is basically arguing that Somalis cannot build a Federal or modern state simply because they are a “tribal” society. She sounds more like those ignorant colonial anthropologists of the past than an informed contemporary legal scholar. However, Mr. Makina of WardheerNews, who has been a keen follower of foreigners who have negative agendas about Somalis, instead, describes her as a Racialist Anthropologist.
She lays bare her ignorance right from the outset when she labels Somalis as “tribes.” Like foreign and Somali scholars who got stuck to the ideology of referring Somalis as “pastoral-nomadic” that was first sounded by the first President of Somalia Aden Adde (July 1, 1960 to July 6, 1967) at the 1963 Organization of African Union (OAU) in defense of Somali unity, the lady professor has strayed from academic and scholarly identification of groups that is social generalization which is unacceptable and nonacademic. Somalis are only one ethnic group comprised of clans, and so any Eurocentric scholar who refers to Somalis as a tribe is just an ignorant lot.
Anthropologically, the term “tribe” is no longer given preference or significance in contemporary research and that “clan” is preferred instead. The Professor Emeritus’ superfluous application of “Why Federalism Failed in Somalia” seems to be a plagiaristic medley of a book that was written by three distinguished professors having 135-years of experience in African governance. Thus, her video presentation is nothing but simply a chameleonic display of the academically scandalous book whose topic was “The Nation State: A Wrong Model for the Horn of Africa.” The aforementioned book was written by John, Schlee and Young (2021) and is one meant to instill social anxiety and social stratification among the people of the Horn of Africa.
Secondly, she argues Somalis cannot build a federal state because they are loyal to their tribe, not their representatives. Where did she get this one? Does she have empirical evidence to back this misplaced claim? Can she point to a study, or a report of some sort conducted by competent researchers attesting to this claim? How can a so-called scholar in law use unproven anecdotal evidence to make such a blatantly false claim? Also, in every Federal system identity and loyalty to a region or state are actually important and this does not in any way negate the foundation of Federalism.
In Germany, the Bavarians are known to be fiercely loyal to their regional identity and so are Canada’s Quebecois to whom French identity, culture and language are critically important to their survival in Canada, and yet no one has argued Canada or Germany can’t function as a Federation. In the case of Quebec, they even went into referendum twice to determine their future and in the second instance came within a whisker of breaking up Canada. In fact, the separatists in Quebec call themselves Sovereigntists, and yet with all this open Quebecois nationalism, no one has put into question the very nature of Canadian Federalism, which remains vibrant.
Further, Federalism cannot be measured on a misplaced analogy that emphasizes loyalty to a specific group vs allegiance to an elected representative. This is way too simplistic and ignorantly casual. Also, her claim that you must demonstrate unity or else you cannot build a Federal system is laughable. Many Federal countries, even in advanced democracies struggle with unity but work hard to make things function.
The US is a deeply divided, polarized society, but are we going to claim US Federalism has failed on account of its pervasive societal polarization? Absolutely not. What this lady doesn’t get is that the basis upon which a Federal system is built is “cooperation,” not perceived “unity.” Federal and state entities need not unite on everything, but they must fundamentally cooperate to make Federalism work. In the lexicon of Federalism, the magic word is “cooperated” not “unite,” because essentially, Federalism, especially in the South, is meant to bring together “deeply divided” societies to “cooperate” and work together in a federated state. Even in the US, Federalism has evolved through the decades, from cooperative federalism, to dual federalism and finally new federalism.

It is totally absurd to claim that Federalism in Somalia has failed, given its nascent and evolving stage. It was only 2016, when Somalia transitioned to Federalism after going through a transitional period. You cannot pass judgement on an ongoing 5-year nascent experience, in a post-conflict environment where the country is still governed by a provisional constitution. Anyone who makes such a reckless statement needs a crash course in Politics 101, even if they hold some law degree from somewhere. She said it took Australia 10 good years to agree on a federal constitution before they could even settle for a federal system. I think she needs to appreciate Somalia’s maturity where from the outset, and in just few short years, they already have a provisional federal constitution with nascent federal structures in place, and all this built from the ashes of civil war.
Going back to the history of post-federalism in Europe, even Switzerland experienced the Sonderbund War for cessation in 1848. A nation that avoided federalism for fear of unintentional fall into the “slippery slope” of federalism is Sri Lanka that was involved in multicultural and multilingual war for 15 years.[i] Unlike Indonesia–a predominantly Muslim nation of 200 million that rejected federalism after the fall of Suharto, had the Professor Emeritus been given the chance and will to lay her hands on Somalia, she would have fragmented Somalia into a federacy that would have created the likes of Aceh and Irian Jaya. But such adventures would never happen in Somalia because, Somalis, when it comes to land or territorial issues, immediately mobilize and unite to safeguard their territorial rights.
The learned Professor Emeritus has failed to focus on what we refer to as post-federated states that have territorial based semasiological break-ups like the case of Ethiopia that has over 80 ethnic groups and almost 90 languages while Somalia is almost homogenous and monocultural unlike Ethiopia and Kenya that are heterogenous and multicultural. Even before the proclamation of independence, Somalis have been pastoral democrats. In terms of democratic governance, Somalia was the first in global Africa to produce the first democrats in Africa as noted by the two distinguished Somali professors and brothers Ahmed & Abdi Ismail Samatar.[ii] Since democracy and federalism are inseparable, unlike some countries that remain reluctant to grasp federalism, Somalia, regardless of having tribal divisions, has already abandoned the old method of centralization.
The political schisms in Somalia that the Professor Emeritus assumes will continue forever is nothing but exaggerated imaginations lacking political substances. She needs to re-study the host of negative linguistic proliferations written in the past by scholars of her caliber who wasted their time and energy maligning the good name and reputation of Somalis and Somalia and how at last they got misguided academically and scholarly after being set on the right track by people endowed with reasoning power. Lack of critical thinking is a recipe for disaster for researchers who fail to pick up the pieces after going astray. In modern times, the rise of literary braggadocios has become common and it is no wonder human pomposity has become the norm. The use of terminologies and phrases like “stateless”, “disassembled state”, “in search of a state” and “state and identity” etc. have become meaningless since Somalia has already recovered from the ashes of destruction.
Currently, every regional state in Somalia is experiencing formidable growth politically, socially and economically while her two neighbors, Kenya and Ethiopia are immersed in ethnic imbroglios. In the meantime, the major factor that is dragging Somalia backwards is foreign interference. Had Somalis been left to manage their affairs with the help of a non-partisan nation like Turkey, it would have prospered meritoriously in all aspects of federal governance. The Somali Federal Government (SFG) in collaboration with friendly military and economic powers, helped create a military force to reckon with, such that, the presence of African forces is totally unnecessary.
The city of Mogadishu is now the fastest growing in Africa while other states are experiencing tremendous overall growth. Somalia prides to have the fastest and cheapest mobile and internet connectivity, while, it still has the fastest money transfer remittance system in Africa, if not globally. Piracy and religious fundamentalism that have been foreign-funded inventions are now dwindling. Foreign aid meant for humanitarian purposes surreptitiously ended up in the accounts of foreigners and their Somali counterparts.
In a well-crafted video that we watched together where an Indian scholar is a guest, we were shocked to learn that between 1765 and 1938, the British Isles stole 23 trillion pounds from India. Likewise, they stole all the coal and other natural resources using Indian labor to help build their country. There is no doubt that colonial mentality among Western powers is still in progression. When 2.7 billion people have no food on the table, Western powers keep on lecturing developing countries to reduce consumption. In a nutshell, the lady Professor Emeritus has a hidden strategic agenda to demonize Somalis and Somalia and rest assured, regardless of her preparation for other denigrating speeches in the future, whatever she’ll come up with, will be discarded and regarded as inconsequential.
With regard to Ethiopia, it is also wrong to pass judgement on Ethnic–Federalism, because it only existed on paper as the Tigrayan elites of the day reigned over a highly centralized state that subjugated the rest of Ethiopians. So, you cannot reach a conclusion on a system that was illogical syllogism and imbecilic. It is the same Tigrayan predaceous centralized hooliganism that is the cause of the current political conflagration in Ethiopia. Despite all the challenges Somalia has been through, we think Somalis have done a great job in building a nascent Federal system that is worth celebrating.
The plethora of inconsistent resentment that have become common with foreign tergiversators should be discarded and thrown into the trash bags without any remorse. Somalia is for Somalis and they are the once deserving of choosing their political desiderata and as well, correcting what goes wrong within their historical peninsula. Finally, we have to defy all Eurocentric nullifidians and continue to deconstruct their negative narratives that are borne out of naked ignorance.
Deeq Yusuf
Email: Deeqsyusuf05@gmail.com
Adan Makina
Email: adan.makina@gmail.com
——————-
[i] Stepan, A.C. (1999). Federalism and Democracy: Beyond the U.S Model. Journal of Democracy. John Hopkins University Press.
[ii]Samatar, A. I., & Samatar, A. I. (2002). Somalis as Africa’s First Democrats: Premier Abdirazak H. Hussein and President Aden A. Osman. Bildhaan: An International Journal of Somali Studies, 2(4), 1-64.
Saturday, November 20, 2021
An Interview with Dr. Marco Zoppi that is Related to His Upcoming Book
By Adan Makina
WardheerNews
August
25, 2021
Editor’s Note: In a long
interview with Dr. Marco Zoppi–an interview about his upcoming book that is
expected to be released in September by Rowman and Littlefield, WardheerNews,
without the least hesitation, wishes to share with you perhaps what would be
described as the longest discussion with our own contributor who selflessly
spent considerable time to share with us a subject that has never been debated
before. Up north Europe, in what we know as Scandinavian or Nordic countries
that constitute Norway, Denmark and Sweden, there is a paradox in ontological
security that constitute food security, political security and personal
security. Unbeknown to many, Scandinavia means “dangerous island.” Even though
the dangers are natural physical features, Somalis who constitute 165,000 in
these countries have experienced enormous inevitable social ramifications that
require corrections by the host governments and configurations of spokesmen and
spokeswomen that is currently gaining ground among those from the unstable Horn
of Africa nation of Somalia that collapsed in 1991. The interview was conducted
by our own Adan Makina. We hope you enjoy it.

WardheerNews (WDN): Come Stai Dottore Marco Zoppi. Please welcome to
WardheerNews. I believe WDN is not new to you and that you will attest to the
fact that it is a scholarly and journalistic magazine that has been gaining
popularity since its establishment in November of 2004. Likewise, WDN wishes to
salute you for the selfless and courageous past contributions that you rendered
it. We at WDN and our readers feel it is a great opportunity to have an
interview with you because you have relevant information to tell the Somali who
are known for grabbing the good news we know as ‘war’. Please, get on board our
digitized ship.
Dr. Zoppi: Thanks for the warm welcome
Adan! Sto bene, grazie mille. It’s a
pleasure to have this talk with you regarding my upcoming book on WDN, to which
I have indeed contributed as author in the past, as you rightly recalled.
Thanks to all the readers that will take time to read the interview. I hope it
will be of interest for WDN’s readership.
WDN:
As usual, please introduce yourself to our readers beginning with your
childhood upbringing, your educational qualifications and experiences.
Dr. Zoppi: I grew up in Monteodorisio, a
small village in Central Italy close to the Adriatic coast. I left my hometown
after the high school to begin university education. I first earned a BA in
International Relations at the University of Bologna, back in 2010. I then
spent 7 years in Denmark, to pursue a MA in African Studies at the Centre of
African Studies (University of Copenhagen) and a Ph.D. in Histories and
Dynamics of Globalization at Roskilde University. Strangely enough, it is in
Denmark, rather than in “closer” Italy, that I had my first encounter with Africa
and with Italy’s past in Somalia and in the Horn of Africa. My MA thesis was indeed
an analysis of the Italian colonialism in Somalia, and my Ph.D. research – on
which the book is based – has focused on the Somali diaspora in the three
Scandinavian countries (Denmark, Norway and Sweden). After the Danish “moment”
in my life, which I have indeed cherished a lot, I came back to work as post-doc
researcher at the University of Bologna, Department of Political and Social
Science, exactly where my educational career had started.
WDN:
Since you have an upcoming book, could you tell us the name of the book, its
general contents and what inspired you to write it?
Dr. Zoppi: The book is titled “Horizons
of Security: the Somali Safety net in Scandinavia” and is published by Rowman and Littlefield. It will be out in September. In
brief, the book recounts the integration dynamics of the Somali diaspora from
the specific point of view of security and welfare, namely with a focus on the
processes of (re-)construction of what I call the “safety net”. I define the
safety net as the complex of institutions, norms and instruments that in a
society are in charge of providing security against peoples’ need and life
uncertainties. I have tried to avoid the most walked research paths on
integration, looking for a diverse and hopefully innovative approach. By doing
so, I have placed diverse understandings of the safety net–which in my case are
the stateless Somali extended family and the Scandinavian state-based model of
welfare–on the same level of analysis and dignity. In order to describe the
Somali safety net in Scandinavia, I have resorted to academic literature, and
to some 30 interviews with Somali women and men of the diaspora, whom I have
asked about practices and criteria for care, welfare, security, solidarity,
remittances and other matters. What inspired me to write about this topic is
the fact that even there where state provision of welfare is highly developed
and functional, as in the Scandinavian region, there is still room for lack of
integration and social marginalization of certain groups.
WDN:
How long how have you been engaged writing your book?
Dr. Zoppi: I wrote most of the contents
during my Ph.D. years (2014-2017), conducting interviews in all the three
countries. It then took me few months to transform it into a research book
proper. In the upcoming work, I have used extensive quotes from my Somali
interviewees that were either absent or included only in shorter versions in
the original Ph.D. manuscript.
WDN:
Perusing through your dissertation or thesis, any reader will feel that you
have a great respect and admiration for the Somali people. Why is it so?
Dr. Zoppi: That’s true. There are possibly
many reasons I could mention. For sure, while exploring topics that are very
intimate (such as those related to welfare, care and security), some of my
interlocutors shared personal stories and life experiences – positive and
negative, rewarding and humiliating. I am extremely grateful for the generosity
of Somali women and men sharing such personal things with me, and even for the
time itself they devoted to my research. This is certainly one reason. A Somali
woman told me “I thought I came to the end of the world” when the Norwegian
authorities assigned her to a refugee shelter in the far north of the country.
She felt sad and isolated, and would soon move from there, against the decision
of the authorities, in the attempt to meet fellow Somalis. A Somali man used a
humorous allegory when telling me that in Scandinavia he had moved from being a
“camel raiser” to be the “herder of the chicken”, implying that he had then
many more things of apparent less importance to take care of, such as the multifarious
bureaucratic requirements of the welfare state, what he considered to be the
chicken. But there was more about it: he echoed the difficult negotiation of
masculinity and the role of men in the diasporic family, themes that I also
heard from many other interlocutors. Moreover, interview after interview I
realized that my interlocutors and I could intend very well each other when
discussing dynamics concerning the “family”. In fact, also the Italian culture
is traditionally highly centered on the role of famiglia – although it is not equally extended – and on certain social
norms that fall on family members. In general, the focus on welfare and
security really reveals that all human beings eventually aspire to the same
things, although perhaps through different means and ways: this has created
empathy between me and my interlocutors as well as reciprocal respect.
WDN:
What made you to concentrate on Somalis in your dissertation and your upcoming
book?
Dr. Zoppi: As I mentioned earlier, during
my stay in Denmark a “paradox” attracted my attention as researcher: the Somali
asylum seekers and refugees arriving in Scandinavia from “the world’s most
dangerous place”
were facing issues of vulnerability and insecurity also in these countries,
which are worldwide renowned for their universalistic, “from-cradle-to-grave”
model of public assistance to citizens. How could that be possible? I did not
find a valid answer around, and therefore I decided to design a research to
deal with that unanswered paradox.
WDN: Your soon to-be-published (September)
book whose title is “Horizons of security State and extended family: the
Somali safety net in Scandinavia” contains harrowing tales of how Somalis
are in dire states. Who are these Scandinavian countries and what are the main
causes of the friction between them and Somalis who arrived as refugees or
political asylees?
Dr. Zoppi: My take is the following:
Somalis and Scandinavians have very, very
different understandings and expectations connected to the family’s role; to care
and to mechanisms of solidarity. In my view, such differences are grounded primarily
in historical experiences. The Somali safety net, influenced by the rather
mobile, pastoral and semi-pastoral economic structure of Somali-speaking
territories, hardly distinguishes the individual from the (extended) family
when it comes to social responsibilities: both material and immaterial
assistance and solidarity acts are in most cases mandatory (meaning that there
are consequences for non-fulfillment) and are regulated by kinship, contract
and the xeer. The Scandinavian model empowers instead the individual per se, at
times even with a marked anti-family goal of emancipation, and require individuals
(the citizens) to put trust primarily in state institutions. These are charged,
among other things, with the task of providing assistance to needy citizens. This
is a very effective model, which enjoys global praise. The point on trust in
state institutions is historically a thorny question for Somalis. I think you and
the readers know better than me on this one. The interesting thing is that what
I have described is though just the initial “script”: world societies are not
static, and in fact diaspora Somalis in Scandinavia are already undergoing some
crucial changes in the way they define the family, and in the way they engage
with solidarity acts towards fellow clansmen in Scandinavia or in
Somali-speaking territories. They are definitely influenced by the works of the
welfare state, and thus by the different definitions of family, and by the
emancipation goal. I try to portray such changes in the final chapter of the book:
it’s a history in the making, so it would be interesting to check again what is
going on in a decade or so, and if that creates in turn an impact also in the
homeland.
WDN: You mentioned scholarly phrases or
terminologies like “food security, political security and personal security”
that fall under “ontological security.” How do they affect Somalis
living in Scandinavian countries and what agitates these countries to perceive
Somalis as a threat to their national sovereignty?
Dr. Zoppi: “Ontological security” refers
to the sense of knowing our role in the world and in the society, we live in. It
is what makes of us stable and balanced individuals, because feeling accepted by
others is beneficial in terms of psychological wealth. The expression perfectly
describes the situation of Somali newcomers in Scandinavia: on the one hand,
they lack the sense of security provided by the traditional social setting they
come from. On the other hand, they are not yet experienced in the mechanisms
governing welfare states and welfare societies. Institutions appear to be
intrusive and a threat to Somalis’ private lives. This issue came out frequently
when discussing children upbringing and the relation with social assistants,
for example. By the same token, one should consider that the welfare state aims
at standardizing notions of risks and needs of their citizens as part of its
survival strategy. It’s the mission of “universalism”, that is social
assistance for all. Therefore, deviance from the established conformity is quickly
stigmatized and criminalized. And the practices and meanings of welfare are so
part of the nation, part of the national way of life and routines (they have built the sense of nation, one
could say), that any perceived threat to the welfare model is also a perceived
threat to the nation itself. This is what I call “everyday welfare
nationalism”, expanding the argument made earlier by Prof. Michael Billig.
WDN:
Why are these Scandinavian countries violating the Universal Declaration of
Human Rights (UDHR) that was adopted by the General Assembly of the United
Nations on December 10, 1948?
Dr. Zoppi: I think that we do not earn
much if we single out the conduct of specific countries and try to condemn or
praise their conduct without considering the global picture. We have seen, and
keep seeing around the globe way too many cases of gross violations of human
rights, starting in a country and then continuing along migration routes, such
as those connecting Africa to Europe via Libya and the Mediterranean, or those
connecting the flows originating in the Middle East and beyond with Europe via
the Balkan Route (think about the recent case of Afghanistan). And violations
take place also in the destination countries of course. Therefore, I think that
a general debate and action is urgently needed to address the widespread
violation of human rights, primarily in the countries of origin of refugees and
along the migration routes, and also to address the poor global management of
migration flows, whether of humanitarian or economic nature. The real question to
me is why human rights currently appear to be retreat and what we can do about
it to preserve human lives.
WDN: The Geneva Convention of 28 July 1951 exempt refugees from reciprocity (Article 7),
because those seeking refuge in peaceful countries cannot get assured or
similar security from their countries of origin. So, why should advanced and
developed countries in Scandinavia specifically harangue Somalis from
war-ravaged, beleaguered and impoverished Somalia?
Dr. Zoppi: Let’s say that pointing fingers
is something that we observe in most European countries, especially against
newly arrived groups of asylum seekers and refugees. This is clearly not up to
the democratic values the EU is supposed to safeguard and spread. Understandably,
some Somalis do face difficulties in settling in Scandinavian societies and for
this reason the entire community has ended up being defined in the past as the
“least” integrated group. Many would mention here issues of cultural
compatibility or other things that have to do with the construction of Muslim,
African, “Black” individuals in Europe. I offer a different kind of explanation,
as I believe that what we see is not an ethnic/cultural issue. In fact, within
my specific approach I describe integration and its challenges as the
encounter, often clash, between two ways of conceptualizing the safety net.
That’s it. On the one hand, Somalis are learning to trust institutions and
consider themselves as individuals and not only members of a clan.
On the other hand, the pervasive welfare
state projects specific expectations from the citizens, for example in relation
to education and employment, that all are supposed to meet. As mentioned, since
welfare states grant generous social benefits, they need both employment (i.e.,
tax payers) and high level of trust in the system among citizens. A group that
is perceived outside such safety net may represent a problem for the survival
of the welfare system itself. I would say that Somalis’ suspicion of state
institutions and the high reliance on familial ties is exactly what have played
an important role in shaping political debates in Northern Europe. After all,
we should not forget that the welfare state is a great accomplishment: quite a
few of my Somali interviewees themselves appreciated the Scandinavian welfare
system, and hoped that present Somali-speaking territories could have something
similar to that. A way to improve the tone of the debates could be noting the
instrumental role that the Somali-defined safety net can have for integration:
the provision of information to newly arrived Somalis on procedures and
requirements; the support to unemployed clan members and so on. This is rarely
discussed at the public level.
WDN: In the “Rights and Responsibilities of
Parties”, hosting nations are not allowed to discriminate
against refugees (Article 3). What differentiates Somalis from other
communities who sought or continue to seek protection from ontological
security?
Dr. Zoppi: Somalis
appear more socially vulnerable, but that depends for most part on the simple
fact that at the time of doing my research they represented the latest group to
arrive in the area. Their stateless implementation of the safety net and the
unfortunate representations of the Somalis as pirates have made the rest. As
latest established community, there is still scarce societal knowledge about
Somali culture and history, and therefore stereotypes and mistrust seem to be prevailing
at times. But I think that their situation is rapidly improving. Scandinavian
societies are very dynamic and offer many opportunities: I was glad to see that
many more Somalis are now making high-level careers into the Scandinavian
societies. They will be certainly in the position to help changing stereotyped views,
and building bridges between cultures.
WDN: Though “legally binding” and a
prerogative of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), no
nation has ever filed complaint in the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in
the Hague, The Netherlands, against those nations violating the rights of
refugees. If that is the case, what is the point of having this plethora of
conventions and human rights organizations?
Dr. Zoppi: This is a wide issue that
should be the topic for another interview! I think that we should see humanitarian
migration management as an ongoing process, in which we have not yet reached
the end of the journey, that is a thorough implementation at the global level.
For as much as the implementation of such conventions is far from perfection,
we should be glad that past political leaders have committed to sign these
documents. Usually, they did so after very tragic events that have marked the
history of mankind. But as many asylum seekers and refugees are still
suffering, we all should be also more demanding of our governments. We live in
a multipolar world where traditional powers have lost some of their
geopolitical grounds to new emerging states: it’s a great moment to amend or
improve existing laws, conventions, agreements and the like. But is there
enough humanitarianism thrust to do that, or are we living in a rather
utilitarian phase in (humanitarian) migration management? I am not sure, but I
have recently seen alarming examples of reduced cooperation among states on
this and other matters. In whatever we will be doing, we should keep in mind
that constructing anew is always harder and slower than dismantling.
WDN:
Could you please explain the engrossed fears each Scandinavian country harbors
for Somalis seeking protection?
WDN: The nations
of Denmark, Norway and Sweden that are either called Scandinavian or Nordic
countries, have had diplomatic ties with Somalia in the past and to this day,
have heavy presence in Somalia’s political, social and economic dynamism. Norway
is one country that has been in the headlines mainly in the maritime dispute
between Kenya and Somalia. Likewise, these countries have heavy Somali presence
with some enjoying exceptional higher education assistance up to PhD levels. In
general, what are the main burning issues that make Somalis a distinct
community that is worth criminalizing, degrading and disregarding?
Dr. Zoppi: I have mentioned some of the
responsible factors already above. Here, I’d add that the lack of Somali
“spokespersons” (if you pass me the word) in the Scandinavian societies in the
early 1990s has contributed to the open circulation of various accusations.
Many benefit from attacking the most vulnerable individuals within a society: it
happens everywhere and all the time across the world. In principle, there
should not be a need for spokespersons, but it’s not a bad thing either if that
helps the cause. And in my research, I was glad to notice that Somalis are now
achieving a fair control on what is being said about them in public discourses
and media in the Scandinavian societies. I mention few examples of that in the
book. That’s an important achievement, which is also the merit of the space
given by these societies. Not many countries are as open as the Scandinavian
trio.
WDN:
Are Somalis contravening the communitarian and societal levels of ontological
ideology or are Somalis opposed to the ideas of assimilation and integration?
Dr. Zoppi: In a simpler and more intuitive way, I would
say that the Somalis are engaged in a process of learning (and in some cases,
moving towards) the safety net as it is practiced in Scandinavia. Upon arrival,
many Somalis suffer from a lack of ontological security, due to the different
messages they are given about the family, the need to attend introduction
courses in a given place (sometimes in the middle of nowhere or anyway far from
other Somalis), the upbringing of children and so on. Out of these challenges,
integration is for me the ability to learn, adapt, and merge practices and
understandings of the two-safety net. Somalis are currently engaged in this learning
process, and indeed some of the stories I have included in the last chapter are
extremely interesting to see exactly what the negotiation between the two
safety nets is about. It’s simply amazing to see how the welfare state is
perceived through the lens of experiences of clan welfare. There is for example
this very exemplificative quote: “The Danes have managed to make this very
communal way of thinking that we have, i.e., that you have to take care of each
other, they just managed to do it on a really large scale, like this is the
whole state. (…). They have taken everybody into account”.
WDN:
Ten years ago in Norway, a young man by the name Anders
Breivik who is serving only 21-years in prison, killed 9 people in Oslo and
then traveled to Utoya at a youth camp where he killed 69 innocent revelers. Do
you know of any Somali extremist who killed such number of people in any
Scandinavian country?
Dr. Zoppi: No, but we can’t take this as a
measure or indicator for anything. It does not make any of us more secure.
Societies and governments need to constantly work together internally and
externally to curb the spread of violent ideologies. All extremist acts should
be considered of the same seriousness, whoever is the perpetrator and whatever
the ideology.
WDN: Somalis are the majority
beneficiaries of financial assistance in Scandinavian countries, and have lower
employment and educational rates compared to other communities. Likewise,
Somalis, in terms of population, have the highest foreign refugee figures in
each Nordic country. Why is it so?
Dr. Zoppi: Because they represent a young
diaspora in Scandinavia. Perhaps in the future they will become a fluid
component of these societies, like the Turks in Germany or the Albanians in
Italy. As for their presence in comparative large numbers (in Scandinavia there
are today some 165,000 Somalis including descendants), it mostly depends on the
Scandinavian governments’ willingness to welcome asylum seekers and their
families, especially during the troubled days of the civil war back in the
early 1990s.
WDN: Do these countries abhor the presence
of Muslim refugees in their midst or are there wild exaggerated concerns
related to their future population growth that could blossom the rise of Islam,
unanticipated religious fundamentalism and objection to religious
proselytization (Christianity).
Dr. Zoppi: Neither of the above applies to
Scandinavian societies, to tell the truth. But there are certain constructions
of Islam, supported by extremist groups that are more hostile towards
foreigners and Muslims, which contribute to spread significant concern, if not
fear. Although it is the view of a minority, we should not overlook it. In my
opinion, as Islam contemplates welfare redistribution, solidarity and humanity
values, it can further the goals of the welfare state.
WDN: To conclude our interview, what
advices would you give the Scandinavian countries and the Somali communities
they host as a means of getting out of the current social stalemate?
Dr. Zoppi: My main goal was to recount
stories and portray change over time in the integration process as I have
defined it earlier. I would then only humbly advise the following: while there
is an advanced public debate on the economic costs of integration, we are less
keen on discussing the failing provision of welfare as well as its social
costs. Against this backdrop, maximizing the cultural potential of the different
definitions of the safety net at the policy level could lead to enact cost-effective
integration measures, thus reducing the overall social expenditures and risks.
This should be the way. And the Scandinavian societies are perhaps the
best-equipped in the world to achieve such a complex task.
WDN:
Thanks Dr. Zoppi for your attention to detail and for being part of WDN.
Dr.
Zoppi: Thanks for the opportunity given to discuss the topics of my book.
Adan
Makina
WardheerNews
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